Our products include our in-house designed viton feet, but any audiophile M6X1 foot can be installed to personalize your system. Not a bad idea Snoop! The DAVE is very resolving, but thinner tonally in comparison to the EMM Labs. The modular nature of the Discrete and other MSB DACs is very clever and I assume this goes a good way towards giving it such a neutral and detailed sound, where no one part is interfering with what the other is doing. Thirdly, having suggested that the brightness issue may lay elsewhere, I will shortly post a suggested tweak directly to both HMS and DAVE - that I have found to increase the "weight", "solidity" and "analogueness" of the resulting sound. The clock can be seen as being the heart of the DAC and once again the clocks are made in-house. I would say go for one of the other MSB ModelsThe Reference is half of the Select dac and the premier and discrete dacs are stunning performers for their price level Just in case it's not obvious, toetapaudio is a Mola Mola Dealer. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. retail client forgets that most audio stores and audio distribution companies Price 9k in the U.K. It's my understanding that the Wavedream only If I want to build a complicated system, I won't consider DAVE because for the position of DAC, I can choose from other brands (Totaldac, NADAC, Rockna, Prismsound 8XR etc) at the same price. This is purely speculation based on browsing the internet over the years and internalising pro/con reviews from users. This is a review, detailed measurements and listening tests of CHORD DAVE combination DAC and headphone amplifier. I did try with just the one power supply and the Discrete remained a very strong performer with the differences being a very slight loss in the sense of separation and definition when listening intently. You'll be shocked by how much you lose by going through a separate preamp. Thank me laterLoL. I've owned a PS Audio Thats why were thrilled to offer up to 100% trade-in value for existing MSB products when upgrading to a higher performing series. It is not hard to audition these DACs in Melbourneand this is your best way to work out your own preference. The MSB Renderer was developed using an in-house hardware design running an ultra low noise A5 processor for optimal audio playback performance. I'm looking for suggestions between $10K - $12K. I'm looking for suggestions on DACs I should listen to as possible replacement of my Chord Dave. Founded in 2010 Whats Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. I have had Dave in my system. Mind you, I have chipless DSD with 1 bit processing, so the bar is set VERY high for me. I believe it comes down to The demo model came in brushed aluminium but you can also get black. Perhaps thats a bit of an odd example for me to use as its a bit World Music but you are also made aware of the rightness of timing on percussive techno tracks. They're very back ordered and are a pro unit with balanced only outputs and no remote but oh my do they sound spectacular. Analogue Volume Control 1dB from 0 to 106 Deactivable by menu, Dimensions ChassisWidth : 432 mmDepth: 305 mmHeight without feet: 51 mm. Thanks. I've had some excellent preamps in my system (Dartzeel, Absolare, Robert Koda, Kondo). In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. There seemed to be a little more separation of instruments in the mix of whatever I was listening to than with the LAB12 DAC and Pre in the signal path and a slightly leaner edge to the music more clearly etched, perhaps? 5 other people who only have 2 things in common with our system. That's just too money for the performance. So true jr, the discrete R2R Multibit dacs like the Terminator the Holo, MSB, Total ect ect have a life and a boogie factor to the music that DS dacs lack, and yes they do show up bad recordings. I actually like the simplicity of this and it is very intuitive to use when you get into setting up and menu diving, though diving is over-egging it a bit as the Discrete is a doddle to set upif you do it right, but more on that in a while. Sources: Hiby R6, Fiio x3II, Fiio x5II DACs: Dave, Yggdrasil, Hugo, Hugo TT, U12. I dont know as that was years ago and I dont have one here to test against. A modular I/O card keeps even the discrete DAC flexible, repairable, and upgradeable. This is disabled if you are outputting to a preamplifier. My wife said it Equipped with high-visibility and a wide viewing angle, the display is both easy-to-read and stunning, exhibiting our love for intuitive features. luxury apartment hotels paris. Sonically, it is akin to the old straight wire with gain only in the digital realm. Sent from my SM-G928V using Computer Audiophile mobile app. None, despite working back as I always do if theres an issue! Sound Media Group Pty Ltd. All Rights Reserved. Look, says I theres obviously a fault with this unit as its lighting up, I can see it on the network and I can send tunes to it via the Stack streamer and Roon! We went through everything and I was getting ready to pack it up and send it back when I reached around the back of one of the PSUs and switched it on MUSIC!!! Anyway, the MSB Discrete is a machine that I consider to be highly resolving and a true HiFi product with regard to the definition I quoted above. And what streamer are you using to feed the DAC? Roon/Jriver 22 -> Ayre QX-5 Twenty -> Ayre AX-5 Twenty -> B&W N802D (Transparent Cables). Australian Business Number 38 650 151 296, Digital Sources, DACs, and Computer Audio, Chord Dave vs Mola Mola Makua/Tambaqui vs Emm Labs Dac2x vs Rockna Wavedream. has 20 hours on it. The MSB simply offered more of everything and to my ears proved again that a true multi bit converter/ladder DAC is superior to delta/sigma or FPGA DACs. Thanks for the interesting reply, cmarin. Once you start playing a tune the DAC works out the sample rate and chooses the correct playback clock. This puts it up against some serious competition! This gives us lots of headroom for future sample rates and audio formats.. Each clock is made up of two independent clocks but only one is used at any given time so as not to add unwanted noise to the circuit. Talking of cool lets talk about this remote. September 6, 2016 in DAC - Digital to Analog Conversion. As I listen to this tune a few times it strikes me that the Discrete is just that (discrete), it doesnt seem to add a great deal of itself to the file it is playing. I have great synergy in my system and see no reason to listen to every new DAC out there. The Discrete is around 11,000 whilst the Select is 120,750 with its power base. the North American distributors for Rockna so I thought I would jump in on this I say take what everyone post when a grain of salt, because an individual's preference may be different than yours. Fixed. I think people buy what they like. MQA decoding Its a clever thing meaning that their products are repairable and upgradeable for example, you can have a card that is set up for single-ended outputs or balanced XLR outputs (for review we have the balanced version). I can see the problem with this unit. Thanks. It's too damn expensive, full stop. I can see that in an A/B comparison, many other DACs sound more impressive than DAVE/Blu2. let me know when it's on, I'll make my way down if I can. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Moving away from the actual sound of the music, one of my main takeaways from listening to the Discrete was the sense of timing it brought to music. They are excellent pairing. Sounds shrill on my workstation and work laptop. RCA outputs with the optional output module Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance > 600 High Gain setting. It doesnt get too hot to touch. Were honored to be recognized by the industry for bringing you the most lifelike sound we can. Elegant design. Can't beat the form factor of it though, great for off a desk top. It was a speaker setup (as in my signature.) Any specific reason you wanna replace the Dave? While were committed to long lasting products that hold their value, we realize audio systems are always evolving. Didn't like it at all. Lots of time it To my ears it makes music sound unnatural. There is the option to add a streaming module to the Discrete and if I was in the market for a digital streaming solution, then this is where I would be going. But in the specific case of the BADA and PM2, if you wish for me to be more precise, then taking into account that I only had the BADA ref for a very short time, the bottom line was that I didn't feel at the time that the difference between the PM2 in my system was significant enough to make it worth the energy to change components or the potential financial loss involved in a trade. And now that my system is much more resolving, it's possible that the differences could be larger and my preferences could change. With two prime DACs, the MSB Discrete yields an unprecedented level of detail that reproduces the musicality, soundstage and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Wherever I read I see unanimous praise for the MSB Select II. At this kind of price, it puts Chord DAVE as being direct competition and I said that DAVE was the best DAC Id heard back in 2018. My first serious audio system was Garrard turntable, Fisher Int(SS), ADS bookspeaker bought on 1978. Your web browser does not support iFrames. @ricred1, youre right to point that out. Btw, my MSB friend and I used the internal analog preamp for MSB and built-in digital preamp for DAVE. prefer to keep our test results among ourselves. About Chord Vs Dac Discrete Msb Dave . but with digital things change quickly, and a month ago I got a new server, the SGM Extreme. The end result is a digital experience defying expectations. Yeah, you and me both- the look I got wasn't as funny as the one I got from the Sennheiser stand when I asked if they had any HD600 or HD650, instead of all those Momentums and so forth, but still. More sharing . there are others I know about but Ive not heard them recently. The good DS (delta sigma) dacs that aren't hard or harsh, are a bit of a yawn, and lack bringing out the life (boogie factor) of the music, but in a . Up to 32 bit 768kHz this was how I originally decided to purchase the Select II as I was trying to hear another dac at shows that could do what I heard the Select II doing at a lower price. Ps Audio Directstream Dac Vs Auralic Vega Founded in 2004, Games for Change is a 501(c)3 nonprofit that empowers game creators and social innovators to drive real-world impact through games and immersive media Here is the list : Trinity Designs [Trinity DAC] TotalDAC [d1-Six] Aqua Acoustic Quality [Formula xHD] MSB Technology [Select DAC II Full Option . The world's largest high-end audio community. When a dealer post something you have to take it with a enormous grain of salt. Ill not get into the whole detail of this here but the MSB website does have an excellent (and interesting) explanation of jitter and why having a very low jitter clock is favourable to having a very accurate clock theres a link at the bottom of this review. With the MSB there has been a great deal of attention paid to ensuring the signal stays as pure as possible and is not affected by other parts of the DAC or outside sources; modular construction, dual power supplies, isolation of USB etc. For such a high entry price I wouldn't take the gamble to go on some recommendation by a stranger whose tastes I don't know. Besides that the MSB looks so much better. it just complimented my system better than those other two. This is how MSB describe these modules: Its best to think of our DAC modules as a black box: the modules take the raw digital data in and output a continuous voltage. Focal Utopia ~ LCD i4 ~ ETHER FLOW open/C ~ LCD-2.2/XC ~ Nighthawk ~ K10 custom ~ JH Angie, Chord mscaler // Chord TT2 // Oppo PM-1 (Artisan silver headphone cable) // Beyerdynamic DT880 600 Ohm // WAVE Stream bnc cables // Kef LS50 Meta. have had the opportunity to A/B many more pieces of equipment than any consumer will every hear. What I do know is that the MSB brings an excellent level of performance by way of neutrality to a system that allows other parts of the system to do their thing its sort of the digital equivalent of a very (very) good cartridge. that it is difficult to say you have the best in regard to dacs but Rockna is Of the ones you mentioned I'd be most tempted by the Emm Labs DAC 2x though if you can get a used higher-end Esoteric, you should jump on it. I'm also a very patient person and can wait for the right bit of kit at the right price to come up secondhand. In my assessment the Makua offered a more open and spacious sound. Compared to some other similarly priced DACs ($10 - $15k MSRP) I prefer the Discrete with 2 Discrete PS. This is because one PSU is supplying juice to modules including the screen and USB input etc but not to the output module. But digital, potentially, can change things. But MSB Select 2 is regarded by many as the best thats why for something 1/10 of the price to compete in anyones eyes is quite an accomplishment. Directstream, Bricasti M1, Jeff Rowland Aeris, Chord Dave, and today I Now, this is an important and quite a cool lesson in what is going on with the two PSUs. There are separate optimal PCM and DSD modes for playbacks and bit perfect playback is how DAVE performs optimally as the FPGA up samples and noise shapes everything to 104MHz 5-bit. Can it output a Low or High Voltage on a single pin in a bitstream? It is a manual step which I forgot. Anyway, the little bit of extra detail on the strings, the attack, and decay are all there to be heard and its a marvelous thing to listen to. But if you don't, what is your reference point? Everyone hears differentlyI heard the Dave with the Blu and I prefer it without it. SO/ROON/HQPe: DSD 256-Sonore opticalModuleDeluxe-Signature Rendu optical--Bricasti M3 DAC--DIY Purifi Amplifier-Focus Audio FS888 speakers-JL E 112sub-Nordost Tyr USB, DIY EventHorizon AC cables, Iconoclast XLR & speaker cables, Synergistic Purple Fuses, Spacetime system clarifiers. its that good. There hasn't been any direct comparison of them with Select II, Trinity DAC, CH D1/C1, Totaldac D12 etc in Hong Kong yet. dac at a reasonable price. Search: Msb Discrete Dac Vs Chord Dave. definitely up there with the best dacs in the world. There is no dark magic involved. This latter recording gets played to death at shows, but that doesnt detract from it being a very good tune and a very good recording, though I have been known to take the piss a bit when it gets played for the tenth time in a day at audio events. I have enjoyed my time with the MSB Discrete DAC a great deal. Mola Mola is another well built great sounding With two prime DACs, we yield an unprecedented level of detail, reproducing the musicality, soundstage, and texture of an original performance, bringing the artist to you. Main Menu Can I ask how you procured all those DACs? @smodtactical I would not take price as any arbitrator of quality, especially nowadays. MSB are an American brand headed up by the brothers Jonathan and Daniel Gullman and located in Silicon Valley, California where they design and build a range of amplifiers, transports, and DACs. Concluding that there is some kind of problem with using an FPGA vs. what MSB does is not technically supportable. The in-house discrete design is then constructed into its own shielded CNC pocket for optimal isolation. Thank you, Mike. The only other items in the chain were the Stack streamer and a pretty well-sorted network setup. This kind of sound really appeals to me and was really excellent to experience on lots of tunes, but was especially evident on tracks from Rumours with every part of the mix being identifiable as unique. What ice cream do you prefer? Is it better than the Chord DAVE that I raved about a few years ago? As you mentioned imaging better, incredible PRaT with MSB. Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transports, Digital Processing Forum, 4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. Hope to try different formats on both DACs to see what works best in my system. Theyre not limited by audio formats, sample rates, or even speed. But it need good system matching. Im getting a bit away from the review proper, but Im sure you can see why I have added that little diversion. Have you thought about hooking up a Blu2 to Dave? I hope to also have an opportunity to listen to a T+A DAC8 (for DSD512) and a Chord Dave (DSD256) in my system soon (with HQPlayer). DAC Comparison Reference DAC Modules 4x Hybrid DAC Clock The Femto 33 Digital Inputs 4x User Replaceable Input Slots Optical and Coaxial input module Included Analog Outputs Preamp XLR Output Module - 150 Impedance RCA output available with external adapter Analog Inputs XLR Analog Expansion Modules RCA or XLR Input RCA or XLR Output Toggle signature. Do diamonds shine on the dark side of the moon? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/, Check the true bit-depth of your files and audio engine, Guide to Subwoofer Calibration and Bass Preferences, Know your limits (Sound Exposure Safety Chart), Topping DX7 Pro+ vs Chord DAVE measurements (Cosmos ADC) - DAVE is better in some areas (surprise! You could try some of the newer dacs that has gotten good reviews. The end users ears are the only ears that count. It's UPDATE VIDEO THREE for the Chord Electronics DAVE DAC REVIEW I have spent a lot more time with the DAVE Dac, still using. I'll take a look, however I've heard they're on the warm side? dCS Bartok>Chord DAVE>MSB discrete discreteR2R R2R DAVE BartokdCSBartok You are using an out of date browser. Was it a speaker setup or headphone setup? Well, you may not have heard a lot of high-end DAC's in your system, but the one's you've listed are pretty darned good. @shkong78 how good is the dave + mscaler vs msb? The output modules are where the converted digital signals are output to analogue signals that our amplifiers can make use of and MSB make two flavours of the output module. us, over a 2 day test period come to the exact same conclusion. It's not just a matter of being polite, it's also about acknowledging that what we hear and what we prefer is uncertain and changes; that the comparisons were made at different points in time wherein my system had varying levels of resolution/ noise; the fact that making a change requires greater energy and usually more money than staying with what you have; and that sometimes the differences between components are not significant or actionable. More to follow. 1 - MSB Discrete 2 - dCS Bartok 3 - Mola Mola Tambaqui 4 - Chord DAVE (add the M Scaler later) 5 - Keep my Ayre QX-5 Twenty, do nothing Thanks! Of course this DAC is super pricey and out of the reach of many (including me). So thats it and I think the only thing I think Ive left out of the build part of this DAC is the 3 buttons and the knob on the front panel which are used for manually changing the volume and menu diving, though all this can be done from the remote. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Sound Media Group Pty Ltd But DAVE also seems to me to highlight the original recording so if the recording is flat, the playback sounds flat (still with great accurate timbre) but if the recording really showcase the soundstage and the 3-dimensionality of the instruments and vocals, DAVE really portrays that well. Guess what I am trying to say is: preamps are important. If you have a turntable, for instance, the Discrete will have to act as a standalone DAC and go into a preamplifier/integrated amplifier which will then add its own flavour to the mix. And in the case of a great DAC with great amps in a system with very low noise, going direct to the amps can be magical. Cheers @Stereophilus What makes you want to upgrade from DAVE? From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates. So this was headphones straight out of the DAVE? We can operate our current DAC modules at up to 6 MHz for PCM and up to 50 MHz for DSD. Impedance 100 Low Gain setting. Its weighty, it feels perfect, its not overly ostentatious and its perfect! But the differences between great DACs is small. I still did not found better audio source. How hot does the Chord DAC get? In terms of sound quality, it's the best digital front end I . StereoNET (Australia) is part of an international network of publications owned wholly by Sound Media Group (Australia). Supported Formats (Depending on Input) 44.1 kHz to 3.072kHz PCM up to 32 bits 1xDSD, 2xDSD, 4xDSD, 8xDSD Accepts DSD via DoP on all inputs, Digital Inputs 1x RCA Coaxial 1x XLR 1x Word-Sync Out 2x Toslink 2x Isolated slots for optional modules, XLR Outputs Voltage: 3.57 Vrms Maximum Impedance 300 High Gain setting Impedance 150 Low Gain setting. So I personally prefer to listen to different DACs just like I prefer to listen to analog as well as digital. and as I said earlier there is no "best" when it comes to dacs or Is it too hot to touch? I thought the DAVE was just as stunning with DSD as PCM. And I make Best DAC Quality Ranking list. In comparison to spdif which feels more 3D but relatively smaller sound stage, with better separation, vocals are more focused/accurate, everything sounds more evenly balanced. dacs and server competed against much more expensive dacs and servers sound wise Others might disagree but these are my findings. It is on kind loan from a member and costs US $14,000. Thank you for posting! Once populated, the circuit boards are made into modules and then placed inside the casework. - MQA decoding. Digital Audio Forum: DAC, Transports, Digital Processing Forum, 4x20A circuits | Audioquest Niagara 3000 | Paul Hynes SR4T + HDPlex HD500 PSUs -> Music PC w/JCAT XE nic, HQPlayer, Roon, Tidal / Qobuz | HDPlex HD100 PSU -> OCX clock + EtherRegen | Aqua Acoustic Quality LinQ streamer | Aqua Acoustic Quality Formula xHD Rev. Stay updated on Bloom Audio at their. It would be absolute suicide for an audio distributor to Never use!! johndoe21ro A fully balanced, ultra-high precision, discrete ladder DAC architecture ensures each note tells a story. I wish you would have had the Totaldac D1 Seven to try. @ricred1, I would like to suggest you take a look at the Mola Mola Tambaqui when it arrives later this month I understand. Copyright Hifi Pig and Hifi Pig Magazine, Big Pig Media LLP. For sure with Hugo and Qutenot even debatable. There is no such thing as a "FPGA DAC"! Thank you all for your answers. How does the PS Audio DirectStream DAC compare to the Chord DAC? To be 100% honest we have A/B tested most of the dacs mentioned Unauthorized use and/or duplication of this material (in part or in full) without express and written permission from this websites author and/or owner is strictly prohibited. As the noise in my system keeps getting lower, the PM2 keeps reaching deeper to find even more musical engagement and purity in standard 16/44 files. You're very polite about how you describe your preferences, cmarin. It seems to take in zeros and ones and then somehow make sense of these and just convert them into faithful reproductions of the recording though me not being at the recording of any of the records I listened to, thats my assumption coming into play. Always use!! One of the things I jotted down in my notes during this time was the sense of scale the Discrete brought to the music I was listening to big music sounded BIG and more intimate recordings had their own scale too. Regular readers will appreciate all that is taken from the MSB website and I make no apologies for not really understanding the electronics. I think my DAVE sounds great with everything. However, there is nothing wrong with "taking" recommendations, which help me build a list that I can use to research then find a way to audition my shortlist. 2. DAVE is the most advanced DAC Chord Electronics has ever made. more might come to mind and I will add them. @astewart8944--two years ago in Feb of 17 i did audition the original Formula dac in my system directly compared to the Lampizator GG 1.5 and the Nagra HD and preferred the Formula for its greater space, lower noise, and more neutral and fast presentation. Great Dac but for me a NOS DAC (Metrum Adagio) won the contest over all the others Dacs I have tried so far. Since this forum is mainly USA based and we are in the UK, I have very little to gain business wise here. Daedalus Audio Apollo 11's. REL S3/SHO. the Extreme has some special optimization for USB. I know it is a standard talking point by some to suggest that Chord DACs aren't as good with DSD as PCM. https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-rothschild-70aab85/, Headphones and Personal Audio with Pitch Perfect Service. Elegant yet commanding, our finishes are available in a matte silver or matte black anodize.
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